Talk:Federation Starfleet ranks (alternate 2250s)
Hey, this is pretty much a parallel system to the regular version -- anyone have thoughts on lieutenant junior grade, fleet captain, et cetera? I also see some possibilities for higher admiral ranks but that might be a little more speculatory (as there are multiple arrangements possible) -- Captain MKB 01:32, 9 May 2009 (UTC) :I'm guessing that the rank insignia follows what was laid out in TOS, so I would suggest that the lieutenant (j.g.) would probably be a thin white line, in a similar fashion to the thinner line seen in TOS (Joe Tormolen). I'm not sure about the admiral ranks though, but the insignia used does match non-canon depictions of the TOS insignia. --The Doctor 07:14, 9 May 2009 (UTC) ::I agree on the LTJG -- there's a clear opportunity for that rank to exist. ::As to the admirals, assuming Pike was a RADM and they kept the TOS/TMP style, a commodore would be three stripes, with the center a thick stripe, and a VADM five stripes with the center a thick one, and so on adding thin stripes for ADM and FADM. I didn't get to see his shoulder epaulets though... -- Captain MKB 07:29, 9 May 2009 (UTC) Thought you might like to know that the novelization describes Pike as a "fleet admiral", whatever effect that might have here... --8of5 02:11, 17 May 2009 (UTC) :Unfortunately that throws a wrench in the two scenarios I had theorized, one where he was a Rear Admiral and one where he was jumped in grade to full admiral, with the stripes being roughly equivalent to an interpretation of the TOS/TMP system, depending on how you take the one fat stripe in the mix. Back to the drawing board? -- Captain MKB 03:28, 20 May 2009 (UTC) Reverted Reverted the addition citing an insignia to Uhura. While it would fit, she didn't wear the insignia in the film... -- Captain MKB 03:27, 12 May 2009 (UTC) Insignia updated/corrected I've uploaded replacement insignia images for the lower grades. These have been color-matched to promotional stills; they also bear a correct pattern of deltas on the uniform sleeve. (My placement of the rank stripes relative to delta pattern may be in error, may be accurate, or there may be no consistent disposition.) I've found no reference material for the admiral's sleeve material (which differs, by my recollection, from the standard delta-print design, but does display a complex coloring), or for the sleeve insignia seen on officers' jackets (was there such insignia). I've thus either left alone or left undone those insignia designs.--Cicero 00:05, 20 May 2009 (UTC) :I'm a little confused -- the previous version did in fact have a patterning to show the delta design, and seemed to be sufficient to the task of describing these insignia. Where was a problem with them and why were they replaced without discussion before such a major change? -- Captain MKB 03:19, 20 May 2009 (UTC) ::The deltas on the old version may have been a little too subtle (you couldn't really make 'em out unless you look closely), but the deltas on there now are too... "un-subtle." There has to be a middle ground to match what was seen onscreen. Also, the rank stripes on the old version look more correct to me than the broad, off-center ranks that replaced them. That and the shading (which is only a style complaint, and not necessary to be correct) makes me think the former images should be kept until and unless we can find a suitable level with the deltas.--Tim Thomason 03:28, 20 May 2009 (UTC) :::The delta pattern now actually match the unsubtle patterning which appeared whenever an unmoving actor was photographed closely in the film. From a distance, and in movement, the deltas tended to fade into interesting noise, but up close (for instance, near the theoretical distance of the imaginary camera here), they were quite vivid, and a little odd looking. :::The piping width ratios and centering are correct. (The ratio can be seen on McCoy in This picture from the LA Times.) :::What I now see is incorrect about the images is the scale. Only if zoomed-in on the sleeve are the stripe-widths accurate relative to the sleeve. They should be slightly elongated compared to what they are. :::Something along these lines (Gold version, toned to match a different still from the previous gold insignia, here) would be more accurate.--Cicero 03:46, 20 May 2009 (UTC) ::That was my fault, and I owe you an apology. I should have brought the issue here first, but didn't think to. ::The existing images had two problems, one of which was the delta pattern, which was of a different layout from that used in the film, and the other was coloration, which didn't match the uniforms seen onscreen. I didn't realize the effort you'd put into the insignia before I first began replacing them, and by the time I did - or realized the extent of the insignia system which you'd produced - I'd already developed replacements for the entire set and replaced several. I'm very sorry for not discussing this with you beforehand.--Cicero 03:30, 20 May 2009 (UTC) Enlisted I removed reference to enlisted ranks for lack of reference to such grades within the film, and some evidence against them. (E.g. "Enlisting in Starfleet" appears to lead to an officer career path, through the academy.)--Cicero 00:05, 20 May 2009 (UTC)